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Author Topic: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa  (Read 14769 times)

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Offline pigpen

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #15 on: February 29, 2012, 07:23:18 AM »
Safety isn't really the objective.  The illusion of safety, however, is quite important.

Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #16 on: February 29, 2012, 08:42:22 AM »
Tell me how a radius of .35 nm and alt to 3k can prevent anything?  They have only a few seconds to react to the treath.   :017:
[/quote]


Threat? the little 1500 pound alumininum things we fly coulnt knock a gargoyle off the side of the peace tower. This assumes it was flown with malevolent intent.

I'd love to hear the official reason that prompted the request

Brent

Offline M Philippe

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #17 on: February 29, 2012, 08:47:49 AM »

Threat? the little 1500 pound alumininum things we fly coulnt knock a gargoyle off the side of the peace tower. This assumes it was flown with malevolent intent.

I'd love to hear the official reason that prompted the request

Brent

I was not even thinking of GA aircraft in my comment.  :sign0135:  ;D
Marc Philippe
PPL-SEL

Offline pigpen

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #18 on: February 29, 2012, 09:22:17 AM »
Quote
I'd love to hear the official reason that prompted the request

The noise of the Cessnas was probably distracting the Liberals from sending nasty, personal tweets out about Conservative Cabinet Ministers, and it was making it difficult for the Conservatives to anonymously send out misleading phone calls to voters, without noise in the background.

Important business in our nation's capital, and it needs to be performed without the distraction of internal combustion engines.

Regardless of the above, the first farcical concept that you need to accept is that a "private company" owns the air space in Canada  :wtf:

Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #19 on: February 29, 2012, 09:32:25 AM »
"Tell me how a radius of .35 nm and alt to 3k can prevent anything?  They have only a few seconds to react to the treath."

Betcha they have, or plan to have, a few CIWS' on the roof the parliament buildings!

If you don't know what that is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phalanx_CIWS

:D

Offline Tony Hunt

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #20 on: February 29, 2012, 10:51:52 AM »
It's a security illusion, but they will use evidence of threats like the "incursions" of the last few weeks to press for a much larger restricted area.

I have heard from several sources that working-level discussions are now promoting the idea of 5, 10, or even 15nm exclusion zones around the Hill, controlled traffic on prescribed routes only, no General Aviation allowed.  Put those expanded radii in the arc-drawing tool and look at Google Earth.  There has been no public reaction from COPA.
 
The US put huge mouse ears of restricted airspace around their national capital.  Pop-up TFRs move around the country with the President and the VP.  When they implemented the permanent DC Area TFR, the small airports in the vicinity were shut down permanently.  There are some political figures and public servants in Canada that assume if the US does it, it must be good and we should have something similar.

I always thought there was something very Canadian about walking downtown during the summer and looking up to see the biplane circle Parliament Hill.
« Last Edit: February 29, 2012, 12:49:11 PM by Tony Hunt »
Tony Hunt
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Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
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Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #21 on: February 29, 2012, 11:51:20 AM »
Couldn't agree more ...

The contrast between Parliament Hill security, and the nonsense they did around the new US embassy, always make laugh ..

Offline Tony Hunt

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #22 on: February 29, 2012, 12:57:44 PM »
The contrast between Parliament Hill security, and the nonsense they did around the new US embassy, always make laugh ..
Funny until Canadian politicians and bureaucrats decide to imitate the US precautions.  That seems to be where they want to go now. 

The last time the bureaucrats discussed this, it was the politicians who told them to stop it - but that was a few years ago.
Tony Hunt
Ex Cardinal CF-TDN
Ex Baron C-GXOY
Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
Next Aeroplane? - I'm looking!
Instructor - PPL, CPL, Multi-IFR and Tailwheel

Offline gmarshall

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #23 on: February 29, 2012, 01:52:43 PM »
Was there a proposed change period where people could comment on this?  Or would there be with any new restricted airspace around downtown?

Anyone know who to lodge a complaint with at Nav Canada  / TC?

-Greg

Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #24 on: February 29, 2012, 03:44:41 PM »
You can try, but I bet this was driven by the RCMP, who I suspect have no such considerations (public consultations, etc ...).

Heck NavCanada is a private company technically ... don't think they have to consult anyone either? (Unless it was somehow legislated)

Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #25 on: February 29, 2012, 03:50:51 PM »
"Funny until Canadian politicians and bureaucrats decide to imitate the US precautions."

I'd say we're still doing a kinder, gentler version of what the US does ... but yes, they go in a direction, we follow.

Offline pigpen

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2012, 08:49:38 AM »
It's started - a Katana was just violated for the enlarged airspace.

Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #27 on: March 01, 2012, 03:52:59 PM »
ts a landmine  i think its already happened 4 or 5 times. And it will continue to happen all year to any pilot running "Current Charts"



The request was made soon AFTER the publication dates for the Ottawa VTA and Toronto and Montreal VNC's

AIR1905*    OTTAWA VTA    2    Dec-11    3    Dec-12
AIR5000*    TORONTO VNC    30    Dec-11    31    Dec-12
AIR5002*    MONTREAL VNC    23    Dec-11    24    Dec-12

So the wrong airspace will remain there for the rest of the year

And i checked notams before i opened my mouth on the following statement too
There  is no NOTAM amending the three charts (Or at least the VTA)  either.

So of course people will bust the airspace for the next year.  Unless you look int he perfectly right place which isnt the place your supposed to look.

A pilot flying VFR with current Charts and who has the notams checked does not know that the downtown restricted areas are at 3000.  The official sources of data are letting us down

Brent


Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #28 on: March 01, 2012, 06:53:15 PM »
"There  is no NOTAM amending the three charts (Or at least the VTA)  either."

Charts are amended in the CFS, not via NOTAM, IIRC.

Offline Tony Hunt

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #29 on: March 01, 2012, 07:43:35 PM »
The two amended CYRs are in the latest (09 Feb) Jeppesen update on my portable 496 GPS. 

That little electronic box has saved my legal butt a few times.
Tony Hunt
Ex Cardinal CF-TDN
Ex Baron C-GXOY
Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
Next Aeroplane? - I'm looking!
Instructor - PPL, CPL, Multi-IFR and Tailwheel

 

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