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Author Topic: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa  (Read 14771 times)

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Offline Tony Hunt

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Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« on: December 31, 2011, 03:15:36 PM »
Heads up:

http://www.navcanada.ca/ContentDefinitionFiles/Newsroom/ServiceProjectAnnouncements/2012/an0209a_en.pdf

Expanding the areas around Parliament Hill and the GG's house slightly, from .25nm to .35nm.  Pushing the restricted space up from 1,500ft to 3,000ft ASL could catch a few people by surprise.  I wonder if the WACO can get up that high?

Takes effect 09 Feb 2012.   
Tony Hunt
Ex Cardinal CF-TDN
Ex Baron C-GXOY
Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
Next Aeroplane? - I'm looking!
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Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2011, 04:43:58 PM »
3000 seems a bit excessive but it also looks like whenever he consult happend it was not mentioned


just makes city tours more interesting

Offline Cloudhopper

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Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2012, 10:42:29 AM »
Thanks a lot for sharing that.

Offline gmarshall

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2012, 02:50:03 AM »
Talk about ick.  The beauty if the sfc to 1500 limitation was that you had to be at +-1700 anyway to be 1000 above the buildings.  This makes a city tour a more stressful endeavor to be sure.

I wonder if this is more security fiction, or to reduce complaints by laypeople that there's airplanes flying 'close to parliament'.

As long as we don't end up with roaming TFRs like they have for the POTUS....

Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2012, 08:20:32 AM »
if i'm doing city tours with any regularity i'm going to do up a google maps and overlay the 2 to see how many streets i have to be over. I think if you stay south of Laurier you are outside it.

And i'll just recommend my photographers bring longer lenses.

Offline canadian

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2012, 11:02:54 AM »
if i'm doing city tours with any regularity i'm going to do up a google maps and overlay the 2 to see how many streets i have to be over. I think if you stay south of Laurier you are outside it.

And i'll just recommend my photographers bring longer lenses.

If you do the Google Maps overlay, it would be great if you could post it here. It's always nice to have a visual representation of this kind of thing, related to features on the ground. I'm pretty sure I couldn't estimate .35 miles by eye...
Alan Salvin
1948 C-170 C-GHFK
Rockcliffe

Offline Tony Hunt

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2012, 11:33:17 AM »
to reduce complaints by laypeople that there's airplanes flying 'close to parliament'.
Yes, that WACO was terrorizing the downtown condo owners.   :o

Funny, I always trusted the WACO to fly the same route and rejoin the circuit at CYRO without generating excitement - even though he had very limited visibility from the pilot seat.  You had to be more wary of the helicopter, he always seemed to fly a different route.  And don't get me going about the Beaver that gave rides two years ago .... apparently even his passengers were scared.

For taking photos, I found that a more gradual turn was better for the photographers, especially if they had not flown much before.  With a digital camera and a good lens, you don't have to get that close anyway.  A photo taken from a shallower angle and then zoomed/cropped looks better, and you need to sharpen it and tweak the colours anyway.  The best results seem to be when photos were taken at dawn or twilight, so the sunlight doesn't wash out the details.
Tony Hunt
Ex Cardinal CF-TDN
Ex Baron C-GXOY
Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
Next Aeroplane? - I'm looking!
Instructor - PPL, CPL, Multi-IFR and Tailwheel

Offline jfdoyon

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2012, 12:59:00 PM »
Go here:

http://maps.huge.info/dragcircle2.htm

enter "parliament hill, ottawa, canada" and 0.35 miles and "Process" ...

Voila!

And look at that, exactly on Laurier :)

Offline canadian

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2012, 04:07:59 PM »
Go here:

http://maps.huge.info/dragcircle2.htm

enter "parliament hill, ottawa, canada" and 0.35 miles and "Process" ...

Voila!

And look at that, exactly on Laurier :)


Cool site, thanks for the link! It seems to be using statute miles, though, and the notice stipulates nm - nautical miles. So you'd need to enter more like .4 (0.4027728075 if I have the conversion right ;-)
Alan Salvin
1948 C-170 C-GHFK
Rockcliffe

Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »
But it was centred wrong too it set the pin on the west block

if you go to .4 and  pin the centre of the centre block..  Laurier again  =)

Offline Tony Hunt

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #10 on: February 25, 2012, 10:47:52 AM »
I was browsing the CADORS for the last two weeks and it looks like people have already been nicked for flying city tours and being below 3000' over the expanded restricted areas.  Next year they'll probably expand those areas to 5nm and we'll all be banned from city tours.

Apparently GYWN was caught orbiting in Class D south of the VOR without checking in.  People are still doing that?  You just have to call Terminal, they'll let you through there all day long.  Right after that, GYWN flew over Parliament Hill below 3000' on the return flight to Rockcliffe?  Certainly makes for an interesting telephone conversation after landing! 

Gatineau had been reporting several aircraft who transit through their zone en-route directly to Rockcliffe.  Gotta remember that you cannot fly straight from McGregor Lake to CYRO without talking to Gatineau Radio (or Terminal).  Same for flying along the river at 1200 - 1700' or so, you have to be speaking to someone.

I'm not normally a CADORS geek, I was supposed to be flying this morning!    ;D
« Last Edit: February 25, 2012, 12:47:24 PM by Tony Hunt »
Tony Hunt
Ex Cardinal CF-TDN
Ex Baron C-GXOY
Ex Husky C-GTHY (my favourite)
Ex Trinidad C-GTLX
Next Aeroplane? - I'm looking!
Instructor - PPL, CPL, Multi-IFR and Tailwheel

Offline gmarshall

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #11 on: February 25, 2012, 05:56:54 PM »
I understand the value of following the rules and playing nice, especially when every time you fly you're an ambassador for all of GA towards anyone on the ground who can witness you.  Once the rule exists, there's no good reason to violate it.

But it cheeses me off that they've instituted these restricted zones for 'security' reasons, when an imaginary line on a map is not going to stop anyone with bad intentions.  All it means is that some people with NO bad intentions whatsoever are going to get at the very least a slap on the wrist, or worse, have their wings clipped for making an honest mistake.

This is in no way like violating airspace around an airport with actual safety implications.

The only possible reasonable justification is to allay the fears of tourists afraid of those little propeller planes.  Seems like a little public education would solve that.  "Little airplanes have never represented a meaningful threat to people on the ground.  This message brought to you by Transport Canada and COPA."

Offline bphilion

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #12 on: February 26, 2012, 10:01:54 AM »
There have been 2 or 3 accidental squawk 7500 incidents over Ottawa.

That having been said is anyone aware of a Legitimate squawk 7500? It seems like a false measure of security when anyone at all familiar with aviation knows about it.

Its not like its the aviation equivalent of the "Masonic Writ."  Our equivalent is knowing the majority of the airport gate punch codes across north america even if we've never been there before.


Offline pigpen

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #13 on: February 28, 2012, 08:12:44 PM »
Quote
it cheeses me off that they've instituted these restricted zones for 'security' reasons

IIRC that GAO in the USA observed that all the TFR's had not prevented one terrorist attack.

Offline M Philippe

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Re: Modification to Restricted Areas - Ottawa
« Reply #14 on: February 29, 2012, 07:19:23 AM »

IIRC that GAO in the USA observed that all the TFR's had not prevented one terrorist attack.

Tell me how a radius of .35 nm and alt to 3k can prevent anything?  They have only a few seconds to react to the treath.   :017:
Marc Philippe
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